I recently had a conversation with Dave, and asked him to tell me how things went after a discussion with you. His report was "it's not an issue its Fine", complete with that inflection on the word "fine", which obviously means it is not fine whatsoever. How, exactly, did he fuck this up?
OK SO. LALONDE. HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, LET'S SAY THAT I THINK DAVE WANTS TO BREAK UP WITH ME BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO HURT MY FEELINGS. SO INSTEAD OF FREEING HIMSELF FROM MY CLUTCHES THAT APPARENTLY SAP ALL GOOD THINGS OUT OF EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH, HE HAS LOCKED HIMSELF INTO A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME. HOW DO I SOLVE THIS? I MEAN THE OBVIOUS ANSWER IS TO BREAK UP WITH HIM. BUT ALSO I DON'T WANT TO. LIKE I SAID, THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL.
[ rose takes a moment to beat herself in the face with a pillow. dave, how... ]
Hypothetically? I would say that Dave doesn't want to break up with you because he wishes to be rid of you, but rather because he wants to spend more time with you. He wants to hang out with you more, but due to current constraints on your relationship feels that it's impossible to do so. So, he ever so logically decided that "hey, if I break up with him we can be buddies again" because apparently Dave has no friends and is desperate for companionship. And if I had to hazard a guess, I would say that he specifically may have been jealous that other people are able to hang out with you without you fearing that the beans would be metaphorically spilled. What you should do is spend more time with him, in an open setting-- in whatever capacity, whether dating or just simple friendship. If that requires "breaking up"... I don't know if I can answer that for you, Karkat. I do know Dave loves you and doesn't necessarily want an end to your debatably disastrous relationship. I would recommend talking about your issues but SOMEHOW that has failed to work thus far. Hypothetically, of course.
[ what he is getting from this is that apparently he and dave need to break up. ]
OK LOOK. THIS IS BASICALLY HOW THE CONVERSATIONS GO.
ME: HEY DAVE I THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM. DAVE: NO THERE ISN'T. ME: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT ABOUT [LISTS POTENTIAL PROBLEM]? DAVE: NAH. ME: WE SHOULD PROBABLY TALK ABOUT THIS. DAVE: YOU'RE JUST MAKING UP PROBLEMS NOWM. ME: [CREATIVE INSULT] DAVE: [LAME JOKE]
All right, I have an idea. It may be a dangerous one, but I believe options are running thin and Dave is a pain. We find an empty observatory or other room, and have URSULA lock the three of us in there. You two will be forced to discuss your issues, and I will mediate with as little bias as possible to make sure that the issues are actually discussed and you two don't end up in a merry-go-round of insults and jokes.
WHAT WOULD WE DO IF EVEN THAT DOESN'T WORK? YOU ARE LITERALLY THE ONE PERSON HE ACTUALLY EVEN REMOTELY LISTENS TO WHEN IT MATTERS SO IF YOU CAN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING THEN OK NO. I CAN'T PSYCHE MYSELF OUT BEFORE ANYTHING EVEN HAPPENS.
SURE. WHY THE FUCK NOT? NOTHING ELSE SEEMS TO BE WORKING.
Splendid. I'll make the preparations, lure Dave somewhere with apple juice, it will be great.
[ and for the SAKE OF EASE let's just say that all that occurred and jump to the fun part where dave, karkat, and poor rose are all in a nice observatory and rose is locking the door. welcome to Hell. at least there really is apple juice. ]
can he hide near rose. usually karkat is not the one hiding near rose, yet here he is. doing that. he really hopes he does not need to break up with dave with rose as a witness that's gonna be awkward?? ]
[ ...okay apparently dave was lured in by apple juice and he will. give rose a betrayed look but go and take the glass of apple juice anyway, sulkily drinking it. at least he didn't timeskip around to get out of this mostly because rose is.
he glances at her then to dave, and he is fairly certain that dave is also not going to want to start? or admit there is something they need to even start talking about. ]
Uh. So Dave is there anything you want to talk about?
[ STOP PASSING THE POTATO TO HIM dave is still glowering at rose actually. ]
Mediatin' my ass, you're meddlin'. [ and there go his gs. ] And no there isn't anythin' I wanna talk about that's why I said there wasn't anythin' I wanted to talk about?
[ like this is. going to work on rose.
sulkily drinks his juice and waits for doom i guess ]
Alright so since you apparently don't want to start I guess I will? Dave, I think we ended our last conversation in a kind of fucked up place?
[ obviously considering rose is now somehow even more involved than she was before..... which means karkat got desperate. desperate enough he is willingly talking about their relationship with a third party present. ]
And maybe discussing that kind of thing through texts was not the best idea? And by maybe I mean it wasn't. It was a stupid idea.
Wait, did you want me to stop time? Because I can but what's-her-name might notice and care?
[ dave. no. stop offering to do that. but he edges closer to rose even as she's put herself in the middle, mostly on automatic even as he continues to kind of glare at her. ]
Do...we really want to talk about this. [ no they locked themselves in here for fun ] My answers are still p much the same?
[ honestly... this actually was a lot easier to talk about when they aren't in person. at least then when there is a delay in his responses he can come up with excuses?? that luxury is not here now though. ]
I am slightly worried that you-- Dave, I mean. That you actually do want to no longer be a thing but you don't want to hurt my feelings so you're just going along with this relationship? Since it'll be less painful than just ending it, I guess.
[ rose be biased towards dave not against him...he...knows that's probably not gonna happen, fuck. dave...does not move to take off his shades, and continues to hold the glass of juice. right. ]
Idk if I would call that less painful? Than just ending it. But I already said I don't want to break up.
[ he opens his mouth, closes it, and then. just repeats the process a few times, apparently uncertain of what to say...next.
he glances at rose like she'll have an answer, but. ]
We just can't make ourselves want shit we don't want? That's...all. Why the hell is this opinion getting an intervention, oh my god.
[ technically rose's main bias is wanting dave to be happy, but she's also. technically on karkat's side? but isn't. so she's clearly, completely neutral, clearly, ]
This isn't an intervention. If it were, it'd be about your apple juice addiction.
[ that's all she adds to that KEEP TALKING, BOYS. ]
[ karkat agrees that does indeed deserve an intervention... probably at a later time. ]
Okay but like I said before I have no idea what you actually want because you get all. Dave about literally every topic that might lead into an actual serious argument?
I do not have an aj problem. [ TO ROSE, BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT.
...
so is the other part, but dave is. still not sure what the fuck to say. ]
I want to drop the topic? I... [ hate talking about shit and he's still edging closer to rose like she isn't going to just distance herself to play mediator again. after a second he stops attempting that and hunches his shoulders forward as he continues not wanting to talk.
he captchas the juice and crosses his arms instead, uneasy, and settles his gaze somewhere on the floor. rose's shoes. her absurd blue godtier shoes. ]
I don't think this argument has an endin' either of us is willin' to entertain and a deadlock's the best we're gettin'. Okay? I'm not happy, whatever, but I'll be less happy with literally every proposed solution we've come up with. Whatever perfect sunshiney happiness I assume y'all are considerin' "issue settled" is not actually an option in this equation, so can we stop discussin' it? I can deal with my bullshit feelings but I cannot deal with constantly talkin' about 'em.
Issue settled doesn't mean "perfect sunshiney happiness", necessarily, it means issue settled. Which it clearly isn't, since you're being obstinate about it, Dave. Sweeping an issue under the rug only prolongs your own torture of it being repeatedly brought up, it does not make it fine or settled or solved.
[ okay that was a little more attack-y than she meant to get but she wants the best for dave (and heck, the best for karkat too), and the best is not an unhappy stalemate, no matter what dave claims.
and as a further meddling sidenote, ]
And frankly, we know you can't just "deal" with your "bullshit" feelings-- which aren't bullshit, by the way. Feelings aren't bullshit.
[ karkat opens his mouth to argue that feelings can indeed be bullshit
and then shuts it when he realizes he would be.... ARGUING AGAINST HIS CASE THERE.... he will let this one go. ]
Also I have offered to entertain it? I was completely ready to start pulling out those long eared mammals out of hats while whistling show tunes for it. [ rabbits. he means rabbits. ] But you said no. Again. Like fucking always.
[ he's starting to wonder if going to rose was a bad idea even though technically rose came to him. but if rose flat out meddling (sorry, mediating) doesn't work then karkat isn't sure if anything will? and dave literally just flat out admitted he isn't happy!! which is something he has implied before but then danced around when called out on it, so. that's progress, or something but.
why. ]
I don't want to keep talking about this subject forever and I doubt Rose wants to keep hearing about our incredibly embarrassing relationship issues. At least, I hope not? Anyway. It's not like I enjoy beating this deceased hoofbeast over and over again. I am ready to give the damn thing a corpse party but... [ he glances at rose then back at dave. ] I feel like this is going to explode violently in our faces if we don't deal with it.
[ and be uncomfortable and unhappy and just do it for dave and he's done so many things for bro he kind of hates the notion. his shoulders hunch more and dave considers what to say but it's always easier to run and if he can't run -
he can give in. that's an option still. his mouth's in a thin line and he's still looking at the floor, but. okay. absconding never worked with bro, its not gonna work here, so the next best thing is to shut up and take it and this is probably not an analogy he should be using in any situation, but - okay. ]
Fine. [ public or not, secret or not. the problem kind of is that he genuinely doesn't want what karkat's offering and he knows he can't actually be offered what he wants, which is...dropping it or magically not wanting anything but what has. but okay. right. surrender is an option. ] Pull rabbits out of hats if you want to.
[ he forces a smile, but it's directed at. the floor. ]
You both think this is the best option.
[ okay, look up, but don't look at rose. dave uncrosses his arms and jams his hands in his pockets, raising an eyebrow. ]
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10/15
How, exactly, did he fuck this up?
no subject
HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, LET'S SAY THAT I THINK DAVE WANTS TO BREAK UP WITH ME BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO HURT MY FEELINGS.
SO INSTEAD OF FREEING HIMSELF FROM MY CLUTCHES THAT APPARENTLY SAP ALL GOOD THINGS OUT OF EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH, HE HAS LOCKED HIMSELF INTO A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME.
HOW DO I SOLVE THIS?
I MEAN THE OBVIOUS ANSWER IS TO BREAK UP WITH HIM.
BUT ALSO I DON'T WANT TO.
LIKE I SAID, THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL.
[ does... that answer your question... ]
no subject
Hypothetically?
I would say that Dave doesn't want to break up with you because he wishes to be rid of you, but rather because he wants to spend more time with you. He wants to hang out with you more, but due to current constraints on your relationship feels that it's impossible to do so. So, he ever so logically decided that "hey, if I break up with him we can be buddies again" because apparently Dave has no friends and is desperate for companionship. And if I had to hazard a guess, I would say that he specifically may have been jealous that other people are able to hang out with you without you fearing that the beans would be metaphorically spilled.
What you should do is spend more time with him, in an open setting-- in whatever capacity, whether dating or just simple friendship.
If that requires "breaking up"... I don't know if I can answer that for you, Karkat. I do know Dave loves you and doesn't necessarily want an end to your debatably disastrous relationship.
I would recommend talking about your issues but SOMEHOW that has failed to work thus far.
Hypothetically, of course.
no subject
OK LOOK. THIS IS BASICALLY HOW THE CONVERSATIONS GO.
ME: HEY DAVE I THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM.
DAVE: NO THERE ISN'T.
ME: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT ABOUT [LISTS POTENTIAL PROBLEM]?
DAVE: NAH.
ME: WE SHOULD PROBABLY TALK ABOUT THIS.
DAVE: YOU'RE JUST MAKING UP PROBLEMS NOWM.
ME: [CREATIVE INSULT]
DAVE: [LAME JOKE]
AND THEN IT REPEATS INDEFINITELY.
no subject
All right, I have an idea. It may be a dangerous one, but I believe options are running thin and Dave is a pain.
We find an empty observatory or other room, and have URSULA lock the three of us in there. You two will be forced to discuss your issues, and I will mediate with as little bias as possible to make sure that the issues are actually discussed and you two don't end up in a merry-go-round of insults and jokes.
How does that sound?
wtf i typo'd so much in the last tag how...
YOU ARE LITERALLY THE ONE PERSON HE ACTUALLY EVEN REMOTELY LISTENS TO WHEN IT MATTERS SO IF YOU CAN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING THEN
OK NO. I CAN'T PSYCHE MYSELF OUT BEFORE ANYTHING EVEN HAPPENS.
SURE. WHY THE FUCK NOT?
NOTHING ELSE SEEMS TO BE WORKING.
i didn't even... notice...
Splendid. I'll make the preparations, lure Dave somewhere with apple juice, it will be great.
[ and for the SAKE OF EASE let's just say that all that occurred and jump to the fun part where dave, karkat, and poor rose are all in a nice observatory and rose is locking the door. welcome to Hell. at least there really is apple juice. ]
no subject
can he hide near rose. usually karkat is not the one hiding near rose, yet here he is. doing that. he really hopes he does not need to break up with dave with rose as a witness that's gonna be awkward?? ]
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rose. ]
Are you meddling. [ ok we're talking to rose ig ]
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she is not going to let karkat hide, though, and moves to stand firmly betweenish but away from the boys. like a referee in a wrestling match. ]
No, of course not. I'm mediating. [ clapping her hands she looks between dave and karkat. ] So, who wants to start?
no subject
he glances at her then to dave, and he is fairly certain that dave is also not going to want to start? or admit there is something they need to even start talking about. ]
Uh. So Dave is there anything you want to talk about?
[ ... no he is going to make dave start. ]
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Mediatin' my ass, you're meddlin'. [ and there go his gs. ] And no there isn't anythin' I wanna talk about that's why I said there wasn't anythin' I wanted to talk about?
[ like this is. going to work on rose.
sulkily drinks his juice and waits for doom i guess ]
no subject
It doesn't matter what I'm doing. What matters is that you two talk. About nothing, if you so insist. We have plenty of time.
[ she will keep you two locked in here Forever. she will do it. ]
But, perhaps, maybe you want to discuss your relationship and your feelings so we can get back to our lives before next century's Halloween party.
no subject
Alright so since you apparently don't want to start I guess I will? Dave, I think we ended our last conversation in a kind of fucked up place?
[ obviously considering rose is now somehow even more involved than she was before..... which means karkat got desperate. desperate enough he is willingly talking about their relationship with a third party present. ]
And maybe discussing that kind of thing through texts was not the best idea? And by maybe I mean it wasn't. It was a stupid idea.
no subject
[ dave. no. stop offering to do that. but he edges closer to rose even as she's put herself in the middle, mostly on automatic even as he continues to kind of glare at her. ]
Do...we really want to talk about this. [ no they locked themselves in here for fun ] My answers are still p much the same?
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Yes, you want to talk about this. In person, maybe. Perhaps discuss what your previous answers were and each other's feelings about them?
[ she's trying to just. gently prod forward the discussion without getting in the way and it's Hard. ]
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I am slightly worried that you-- Dave, I mean. That you actually do want to no longer be a thing but you don't want to hurt my feelings so you're just going along with this relationship? Since it'll be less painful than just ending it, I guess.
[ oh god it sounds worse out loud. ]
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Idk if I would call that less painful? Than just ending it. But I already said I don't want to break up.
[ he opens his mouth, closes it, and then. just repeats the process a few times, apparently uncertain of what to say...next.
he glances at rose like she'll have an answer, but. ]
We just can't make ourselves want shit we don't want? That's...all. Why the hell is this opinion getting an intervention, oh my god.
no subject
This isn't an intervention. If it were, it'd be about your apple juice addiction.
[ that's all she adds to that KEEP TALKING, BOYS. ]
no subject
Okay but like I said before I have no idea what you actually want because you get all. Dave about literally every topic that might lead into an actual serious argument?
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...
so is the other part, but dave is. still not sure what the fuck to say. ]
I want to drop the topic? I... [ hate talking about shit and he's still edging closer to rose like she isn't going to just distance herself to play mediator again. after a second he stops attempting that and hunches his shoulders forward as he continues not wanting to talk.
he captchas the juice and crosses his arms instead, uneasy, and settles his gaze somewhere on the floor. rose's shoes. her absurd blue godtier shoes. ]
I don't think this argument has an endin' either of us is willin' to entertain and a deadlock's the best we're gettin'. Okay? I'm not happy, whatever, but I'll be less happy with literally every proposed solution we've come up with. Whatever perfect sunshiney happiness I assume y'all are considerin' "issue settled" is not actually an option in this equation, so can we stop discussin' it? I can deal with my bullshit feelings but I cannot deal with constantly talkin' about 'em.
no subject
[ okay that was a little more attack-y than she meant to get but she wants the best for dave (and heck, the best for karkat too), and the best is not an unhappy stalemate, no matter what dave claims.
and as a further meddling sidenote, ]
And frankly, we know you can't just "deal" with your "bullshit" feelings-- which aren't bullshit, by the way. Feelings aren't bullshit.
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and then shuts it when he realizes he would be.... ARGUING AGAINST HIS CASE THERE.... he will let this one go. ]
Also I have offered to entertain it? I was completely ready to start pulling out those long eared mammals out of hats while whistling show tunes for it. [ rabbits. he means rabbits. ] But you said no. Again. Like fucking always.
[ he's starting to wonder if going to rose was a bad idea even though technically rose came to him. but if rose flat out meddling (sorry, mediating) doesn't work then karkat isn't sure if anything will? and dave literally just flat out admitted he isn't happy!! which is something he has implied before but then danced around when called out on it, so. that's progress, or something but.
why. ]
I don't want to keep talking about this subject forever and I doubt Rose wants to keep hearing about our incredibly embarrassing relationship issues. At least, I hope not? Anyway. It's not like I enjoy beating this deceased hoofbeast over and over again. I am ready to give the damn thing a corpse party but... [ he glances at rose then back at dave. ] I feel like this is going to explode violently in our faces if we don't deal with it.
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[ and be uncomfortable and unhappy and just do it for dave and he's done so many things for bro he kind of hates the notion. his shoulders hunch more and dave considers what to say but it's always easier to run and if he can't run -
he can give in. that's an option still. his mouth's in a thin line and he's still looking at the floor, but. okay. absconding never worked with bro, its not gonna work here, so the next best thing is to shut up and take it and this is probably not an analogy he should be using in any situation, but - okay. ]
Fine. [ public or not, secret or not. the problem kind of is that he genuinely doesn't want what karkat's offering and he knows he can't actually be offered what he wants, which is...dropping it or magically not wanting anything but what has. but okay. right. surrender is an option. ] Pull rabbits out of hats if you want to.
[ he forces a smile, but it's directed at. the floor. ]
You both think this is the best option.
[ okay, look up, but don't look at rose. dave uncrosses his arms and jams his hands in his pockets, raising an eyebrow. ]
You're probably right. You can't both be wrong.
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and no she doesn't want to hear about your relationship issues forever. being awoken at 2am for them was the breaking point really. ]
So, you're agreeing to... discuss the issue? Are we now discussing the issue? That would be good.
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